Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. Don't spend so much time worrying about the next notch on the ladder: your goal should be to learn new things, to get something cool done and to find things to do that are fun for you.2. I'm a level 62 dev trying to get to 63. This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" Heck, we would be lucky if many can do even that well. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. I went from level 62 to level 65 in that time. Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. Its UI is fundamentally incoherent, showing probably the worst case of design-by-committee since the control room at Three Mile Island. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. I am a [sic] HR manager. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. I know devs who got in at the wrong level and paying the price because they didnt negotiate their level correctly when they joined. It is my observation that the most common place we see disillusioned learners in the product groups at MS is at level 62. Take it because it plays to your strengths. We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. Nothing you do is good, all you get is criticism. So, for those of you who are in orgs where it's 'easy' to get to L63 or L64 - think about transferring out BEFORE you get too high a level and paint yourself into a corner. RIF in the SQL team? Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.When will MS learn this lesson? Starting to reach out and grab some of what you would be doing with a bigger scope/higher level.An earlier poster said it. Then L64 took two years. Saturday, November 15, 2008. Mine is inside sales Azure. Moved to a role where I could see headroom and also where I could set specific commits and accountabilities with the GM, which I then exceeded and moved to L63 in '04. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. Stop thinking of your Mgr as your adversary and listen to what they are telling you. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. Any idea on when is this going to change? How? While managers shouldn't be absolved of the responsibility, we do need to understand that your manager might not be able to help you. One of the key lessons is to know who is the gate keeper for your career. This is a good list. The conclusion: its price today! There is an over lap in all levels when you move across companies with m:n map. @No! Got two promotions - still level 60If you really got promoted twice then you would have advanced 2 levels.Either you didn't actually get promoted, or someone told you lies. But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? But people who move often grow faster because of two things (in my opinion.) That didnt happen by chance alone. Then you're on the path to higher levels. He himself is principal for quite sometime. Email@ elliereinker@gmail.com | Call@ 330-554-0249. Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. "Ain't seen nothing yet" is a more popular variant of the same due to a song with that title and refrain. Learn How to State Your Case and Earn Your Raise, Climb the Ladder With These Proven Promotion Tips, A Guide to Negotiating the Salary You Deserve, How to Prepare for Your Interview and Land the Job. In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. For instance, software development engineers generally come in at Level 59,. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. The way to succeed here is to find out how you make you, and your manager, and his/her leads, succeed as a team. The people around you can help with that. If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. EQ/IQ and Collaboration. "http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdfWorth a read, Lisa. It operates through the following business segments: Productivity and Business Processes,. L66 is Principal band. you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. I'm now past my time that I can recruit away from MSFT after leaving some time ago. .css-1uhsr4o{margin-right:8px;}Get Paid, Not Played. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. It's a struggle even to get a solid Level 59 promoted to 60 because of budget and under-levelling of devs in 60-61 range. If you're off-path, you can turn it around. on this one. I'm currently level 66 and started at level 59 (equivalent in old levels) 12 years ago. I also don't know if this is the first step towards a lay-off, but for now, it seems we'll have jobs for a few more months.Ugh, not good, not good at all>I am a partner. For example, some are principal individual contributors that just stayed for too long in a group and became essential, but now want to move on and cannot do that, either because their skills are obsolete or because they simply cannot go to a new startup team at such high level without any management responsibility, and they are untested managers. There is only one item in this list: visibility. Think about why they're able to do that.These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post. I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. Thanx for it. I would love to be above 60much less 63. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. I was an asshole, but I was better than my peers at getting shit done -- I was a PM in DevDiv at the time. But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. It's a good time to flip back through that. Promotion to 63 happened to me 2 years ago when I helped ship Office 2007. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. Got lucky on that one!!!! For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. What is the average promotion velocity for non-technical fields? That is the guy to beat. Microsoft, Go to company page You first have to be truthful with what direction you're going in and where you actually are trying to head. Experienced Digital Transformation & creative leader with a strong executive presence, experienced in creating value, building relationships & consensus across board-level client executives that . If they can, pay attention: They don't even know the area as well as your superiors, and you need to spend more time covering your bases. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. Thanks for keeping this focused. The second was threat (I have a serious offer outside the company that I am taking). Pop quiz: who is it? Full stop. If youre working individually there is an upper limit on how much you can accomplish since there are only 24 hours in a day some of which must be devoted to eating, sleeping, and other bodily functions. It may be that the policy is to do transparent leveling but it's no one's job to go through and make sure they're up to date. At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Then, he told those have been canceled. Maybe one boss likes to see a lot of code written, and another settles for less code, but fewer bugs. I give you the example from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/awaits "A busy day awaits" as evidence.So one legitimate missing punctuation mark, one matter of verbal interpretation, one popular idiom, and one completely correct phrase. Levels 57 and 58 are reserved for non-permanent employees and Levels 59 and 60 are reserved for New Graduates. Let's Hear it for the Girl! You try that in subs (who actually generate the revenue, HQ typically dont) - but the question is - do they dare push such a thing in the US? Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? They had to be given outlandish levels so as to match their previous compensation. Why? When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. If I was 65/66 material, why did they wait until I gave notice to offer me the promotion? This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. I could make changes quickly and with quality. Its nice to see constructive advice and stories from everyone.I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. Anyone know how to handle constant Re-orgs. +1 on the level balancing difference in subs.As someone who has transferred employees to/from corp/sub both directions and has promoted a bunch of folk, the corp level for a role is 2 numbers higher than the equivalent sub one. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. If only your manager knows you then it is unlikely (at least on paper) that you will move beyond L62. Mini could you please confirm or deny this. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Promotion and raise budgets are going to be quite tight everywhere, not just at MS. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. I think there's only one thing I would add, from the perspective of having been promoted from L59 to L64 in a 6-year period in one org (I left MS in 2006).Sometimes things within an org will turn to complete crap, and either there's not an option to leave or you may not want to. I am a troll. Taking the easy escape out like that, you are more likely to get into the same situation at other companies. Know where you are in the stack and understand how you will rank higher next year.BTW, forgot to mention I was a manager for the second half of my career. After all, if you think you are already ready, and your manager doesn't, there is probably some way you can improve that you don't understand -- this is something you want to figure out.6. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. I dont know why this is the case. Advice from anyone at Microsoft for 10+ years is great to hear, but hard to follow. I've been at the same level for 3.5 years (since I joined MSFT), and while I spent three of those in a group where almost noone at all got promoted (a group which has since essentially dissolved), I'm concerned that my level stagnation reflects poorly on me, even though I've been the major contributor on products that have earned 10x my total compensation package for MSFT. I have staff that are lvl 60 and get paid as much as folks that are lvl 62. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). Own your brand. It's a matter of human nature for most people not to want someone else to pass them up. If your boss isn't banging his fist on the table for you, it won't happen. It's just that the scope is different. That figures. And when the time comes, putting you up for a promotion to L63 is the first time your boss will be challenged by your skip-level and by your Aunt and Uncles (your boss's peers) about one of your promotions. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). I came in at 58 (9) and having been through a) I wish I had gone through b). So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . Did you triangulate the feedback? Things get thrown your way and you knock each and everyone of the challenges out of the park. At this point, the financial crisis and everything, wouldnt it be more interesting to try and predict what KT and Steve will do once they recieve the rest of year forecast mid december? If you reach L63 during your time at Microsoft, especially if you started at L60 or below, you should celebrate. Thanks to Mini for the great information. and hey if it backfires (eg the mgr flips), I can always take the offer at hand and leave MS.thoughts? Then do it.Yeah yeah, that's an oversimplification. Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard. But if you think you should be promoted and your manager doesn't, you shouldn't sit and seethe -- you must understand what it will take. Thats what I call implicit :). In the case of the latter, make sure you have the goods, because your manager now must show his/her hand on whether s/he values you. Software development at MS has become more complex and much more collaborative. To the guy you said:I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. Same applies if you started your career in Test. Also, the way you achieve your commitments does affect the perception and recognition of your efforts. That's why Microsoft is pissing away the monopoly that you inherited from IBM. Tips for getting them on your side:1) Ask for Exceeded. In short there are lot many ways to influence others and infect the best ones are not being a manager :). If you send a brownbag invitation to your VP level group then you know your VP is getting it. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. They will have thought this out. Its, actually, quite a short list. Many folks lurk longer in the 60-62 range because they are not challenged enough to move to the next level. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. My management tells me that this is normal and 2 years is "aggressive", but this is getting frustrating for me. Secondly, finding a suitable mentor to help them overcome that weakness. Let's slim down Microsoft into a lean, mean, efficient customer pleasing profit making machine! Any idea on when is this going to change? First, they are moving *to* something that they think fits them better -- and bringing an enthusiasm for the new position to go with the better fit. Here are the key facts about senior director resumes to help you get the job: The average senior director resume is 776 words long The average senior director resume is 1.7 pages long based on 450 words per page. A Principal-level employee at Microsoft is someone who drives strategic efforts in their area of expertise. SAP, Go to company page Sorry for going dark for so long. So here's my 2 cents:Read this now and have a game plan for your 1:1s to tee up a deeper discussion at MYCD. Don't be the roadblock. Browse all Microsoft salaries . Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. Don't discount the power of a mgmt chain that believes in you. for 63 promo within a more clear timeline. Go for the team that offers the best package right during the transfer. Don't be afraid to ask your manager some very direct questions.Don't force the issue. Seniority level Director Employment type Full-time Job function Management and Manufacturing Industries IT Services and IT Consulting, Computer Hardware Manufacturing, and Software Development. Also, its important to keep in mind that it is impossible to provide a perfect definition of any level. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. So far, I haven't been successful. You should be able to show the path to a goal, especially to collections of people who do not report to you. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".This is better written as "Ask what specific things you are lacking in, which are preventing you from being promoted to the next level". For context, I have always been "exceeded" or "high achieved", If you want to dig a bit more around job titles which gives you an idea of someones level or the dispersion of a team, remember that the title you see in Outlook is not the real title, its just the address book title. Propose a new one and spend a day in implementing it. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. But my manager is communicating to me that it is very hard and I am likely to show patience for another year or two.I do not know how to confirm this without looking like whining. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. Senior Director, Data & AI South East Asia lead i.a Aug 2021 - Jan 20226 months Singapore 33NFT Admin & Ops 33NFT Sep 2021 - Present1 year 7 months Netherlands 33NFT is one of the top anonymous. A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. Oldest and (still) best advice I've gotten is move around a lot; no two teams' cultures or needs are the same, so you have something to offer wherever you look.

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