(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); I still needed more weight on the Left Front and Right Rear so I added + 4 cross weight. "two linoleum tiles & salt" technique to allow the tires to slide on the scales If not, adjust the ring until you read that number and then you can install the spring in the car and be very close to the correct ride height. But if you corner and the inside wheel slows to 150rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 250rpm. Now that's pretty cool! 4 Establish the exact weight change in percent that a given spring height change will make and record that number. left to right (measured with a digital caliper) and my ride height was pretty be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to The crossweight percent will have changed to, say 55.4 percent. The rear is 2.125" wider. I'm not saying you get what you pay for with race scales but there is a reason I went with longacre. The spreadsheet's second page has a good article that goes into more detail of Now that we understand why we need to maintain a set ride height, let's go through an example of how to set ride height. When dealing with advanced suspension tuning, some people may adjust the corner weights in a manner to impact the way the car handles based on the tracks layout. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. I had to do this with my truck. If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. At least for road racing. We will deal with preload on the bar later on. I even thought my excel spreadsheet calculated it's recommended corner weights to achieve 50% cross weight. We were racing dirt oval about a month ago, and then I tried this scale system . %Right Weight = One of the problems with cross-weight is that it will change the handling balance from a left to a right turn. % 50% is optimal, Wedge = The following are screen shots from the Cross Weight or Wedge. Choose your ride heights before you measure and/or redesign your front geometry and then maintain those chosen ride heights. It's a lot of They're made by Proform, and are quite a bit less expensive than the ones made by Intercomp, but they got good reviews. I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following as Left Rear Bite + Right Front Bite. Caster creates stability as the geometry . This was a very interesting post to me. When looking at corner weighting, the cross weight (diagonal weight) is the most important component. On the other hand, it drives really, REALLY good for being setup by this idiot behind the keyboard, and I really don't wanna spoil a good setup by chasing after a perfect setup at least not yet. you run on the track. I'm off by 0.1% (see numbers on left side of the spreadsheet). Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and March 2017 - F1 suspension rules, independent rear suspension for dirt oval. Measure control arm angles after each change. This is but one method and I encourage everyone to ask around and find a method that works for your type of car, this one may not be the most efficient. I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. Granted, moment centers will stay fairly consistent with small movements of the chassis in dive and roll from the ride heights being off a little. more traction or bite in left turns. The total weight will ALWAYS be correct unless you can find some way to suspend gravity, if you can let me know. If you had a car with a fully rod-ended out suspension that frictionless and frictionless tires you wouldn't need to roll the car around or bounce it or anything. A. height and corner balance new springs. important for oval racers, especially on dirt ovals. springs settled over the first 3 months. Front and Right Rear need 51 lbs of additional weight to balance the car. split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns If a setup sheet read as "30 pounds of bite", there would be 30 pounds more weight on the left-rear than the right-rear. over And what do you mean by "lots of bearings"? 1) Tweak: Tweak is the amount of weight on the LR as opposed to the RR. Take care that the car does not accidently slide off the scale pads. "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. If you want more turn in one direction put extra weight into the inside rear or outside front. 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. supposed to. lb driver, no passenger, spare tire removed, soft top up, Magnaflow mufflers (-20lbs), Braille Wouldn't the fact that it is front wheel drive change at least the front to rear percentages? Please post on the appropriate 4m forum. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one If your car's diagonal corner weights are not equal then its handling will be unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other things being equal). Wedge Delta can also be thought of If you shocks are working normally they are not worth worrying about. To keep it clear in my head, I think of the car as a four-legged table sitting on a mattress. bite, a negative value means the Right Rear is favored. If you lower the ride height at a given corner, that corner will lose weight as will the diagonally opposite corner. You've mentioned "dead struts" a couple of times - what do you mean by that? Kind of like a person standing on a bathroom scale under a low ceiling, pressing on the ceiling with his hands with some constant force. June 2017 -Center spring steering, corner judder w/ swing axle or beam axle . They are not too suitable for racing and oval dirt cars. Right Front = I overshot by a little so I raised the left rear spring perch by 1/2 the RF coil over 5 turns. There are several ways race teams adjust corner weight. Now, I didn't have the sway bars disconnected, not did I put anything slippery between the tires and the scales - I just wanted to get a quick look at the total weight of my car, but the amount of error caused by all the friction was pretty startling. I saved a copy of the spreadsheet for each [Up] [HarnessInstall] [WingInstall] [RemoveA/C] [OilCooler] [FireSuppress] [CutoffSwitch] [RaceExhaust] [Differential] [CornerBalance] [CatchCan] [RollCenters] [FrontBumpSteer] [Alignment] [ShockTuning] [Aerodynamics] [CatRemove]. The vanilla neon setup would be SDK suspension (stock ACR, look at neon.org and figure out what you have) with 3.5 deg front camber, 1 to 1.5 rear, zero to 1/8" in toe front and rear. Don't be in a hurry to set ride Did you mean it was off several hundred pounds per corner? In contrast, the corners on most ovals are super speedways are of a similar radius, and run within a very narrow range - closer to three-to-five miles an hour in difference. Bite and Wedge Delta are positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. If we make equal and opposite changes to each side to change the ride heights and do both the front and rear together, then the process will move along faster. This approach is commonly used in oval track racing. What you're saying makes sense, but I can't explain why it took so long for my car to settle into its final weight reading. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. You can lower the cross weight to help on tacky tracks. If the driver lifts early but still has a fairly good amount of roll speed into the corner, there probably isn't much brake being used. I two years. Make small changes at the track, and make only one change at a time. That makes every little detail that much more important. To test this, put the car on scales, and just tip the setup board and see how much the numbers change. That seem like a lot. You can use rubber tires on very specific tracks and seasons. camber angle of the wheels (-3.5 front, -3 rear). These tell us all we need to know about the setup relative to the weight distribution. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. rear should be the same. That is why a stiffer right rear spring makes the car looser. As long as the tires have near "1 to 1 traction" with the ground, you should set up your race car like an asphalt car (see the Chassis Set-up At The Rear For Cornering page). Remember that this is a sample car, so don't use these numbers, but do use this method. In oval racing you always run more weight on the LR. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? In April 2013 I corner balanced the S for the first time in you don't use Microsoft Excel. Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages? to get them exactly level. Some racers like to take matters into their own hands-and that's OK. The third, and probably the best, option seems to be to invest in a set of hub stands, as this not only takes care of the bind issues via their built-in rollers, but it just makes the task of doing the alignment a lot simpler as well. This allows a slightly lower rear stance, which provides a good weight transfer entering a corner. Even 1/8 inch difference will make a difference, especially if you have You could also raise the left front or right rear ride heights to do the same thing. If you don't have adjustable end links on your My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs another. You will have to repeat this every time you lower the car onto You will need to weight your vehicle on each tire to use this tool. With an oval track car turning to the left, weight will transfer from the inside to the outside. It puts power down better, and any decent FWD car will be carrying a wheel in the air around a turn anyway, so by default the outside rear gets 100% weight transfer when it's being asked to turn anyway. This gets very tedious, given the number of iterations it typically takes to get the corner weights right. unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other Record each spring rate. things being equal). used cheap linoleum tiles (49 cents each at Home Depot) to shim two of my scales Many electronic scales will perform the calculations for you. I would imagine that disconnecting the shocks is only applicable to setups where the shock and spring are separate, like a lot of solid axle cars, or Mk2 Supras in my experience. Let's explore some ways to do this in an orderly and sensible way. To properly corner weight the car, it is necessary to add weight to the driver's seat which is approximately equal to the weight of the driver (or have the driver sit in the car). TVW CWP FWP or, 2,800 0.52 0.51 = 685B. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. For ovals we want a Once you have established an ideal moment center design and the correct cambers through testing, you need to maintain those throughout your season. The SRM will determine the relative changes to the spring height adjusters for weight changes. I started out with the KW spring perches set exactly the same turn to the RF simply to raise the ride height of the front of the car. The other two corners will gain weight. for the front and rear sway bars and installed them with my girl friend sitting Right Front tires. Don't just blindly cross weight it thinking it's the "right" way. rear and tried again but I still needed more weight off the right front and left Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. Ok sounds good. As the shopping cart is pushed forward the front wheels spin back and trail behind the caster line. For the teams that are running very soft front coilover springs, you will have a very difficult time moving the adjustment ring with your shocks in the car because of the high amount of pre-load on the spring. The first spreadsheet below is what I started with. I mainly run the 3/8. Muscle Car. Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side weight percent = 0.54, FWP = front weight percent = 0.51, CWP = Crossweight percent = 0.52. . Dirt Late Models. With the driver weight, the left side might move down 1/4-inch and the right side down 1/8-inch. Knowing those numbers will allow you to set and/or check your ride heights if the driver isn't around by adding the difference to the intended ride heights. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. It has to, it's just the laws of physics. springs to put more weight on the left rear (and right front) tires and Of course you can add too You can also put two linoleum tiles with salt between them on In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. So, we are not reinventing the wheel here, just refining the process. There is work involved in going fast for the full race and racing other racers clean. Since oval Always try to start with the track bars first. When a NASCAR crewchief says he's "adding wedge", important for cars with upgraded (stiffer) sway bars because they can exert a Static weight distribution is the weight resting on each tire contact patch with the car at rest, exactly the way it will be raced. After these items are completed, it is necessary to corner weight the car. about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left decided to try 5 turns total of spring perch movement to balance the car. Now, look into details about the matter. suspension). If you're setting up a FWD race car, and you can see this in historical VW Golf or original Minis, they often lift and inside rear-wheel. Basically so long as I don't completely overcook a corner entry, it does better than any car this heavy has any right to Good stuff. ride heights after every change. racers add "wedge" by adjusting the right rear spring perch--they The shock length as it is installed in the car at ride height. shifted by more than 1 pound after rolling the car on the scales. It is best to get 50 percent left-side weight when possible. Both of these items will impact the cross weight of the car, and therefore they are important in the corner weighting process. want balanced turning in both directions. We use our multiplier to move each adjuster so that the preload changes are equal and the ride height will remain close to the same. right swapped). 9. You can also estimate your car's 3.If you plan on having to set ride height without the driver, measure the difference with and without the driver in the car at all four corners and record those differences. You should read the spring preload amount. These are only average measurements, and they will differ depending on the particular model of car that you have and the tires it is using. For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. You can I recommend you start with your car at your desired ride Wheelbase: 9.5" min, 11.5" max Maximum width: 10.250" Minimum weight: 57.0 oz All cars must have 4-wheel independent suspension, single speed transmissions only. Left Rear tire is carrying more weight so it will get more traction and We used to run about 1/8 of toe-in at the local tracks, and this helps the kart to cut through a corner easier in the center, where the steering is the greatest. Road racers are Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the Brake pads badly taper worn - replace. Choose a level spot in your setup area. Delta is equal to (Right We have 4.1875 front and 5.1875 rear. This approach is commonly used in oval track racing. 2 When you make a spring change, bring that corner back to the measured distance from the wheel rim to the fender mark by adjusting the spring height. Cross-weight is also called wedge: If the percentage is over 50 percent, the car has wedge; if below 50 percent, the car has reverse wedge. If you want to raise the front of the car then extend only the upgrading our street stock suspension part 2 the rear end. First the tires. I was surprised to find, contrary to my experience, that the Vette came is very close to itsexpected weight as soon as it was let down on the scales, without having to take bind out of the suspension. I the same time. can help us get our setup right with less testing. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights The left weight percentage is found by adding the LF weight to the LR weight and dividing the sum by the total weight. A good starting point would be tank of gas. the front ramps then jack up the rear and lower it onto the rear scales. I looked back and I don't think I've ever done an article on this subject and I can't understand why. Most oval track speedways are similar to those in the US for car racing such as sprint cars, speedcars (midgets) and sedans, with most tracks generally around mile (402 m) to mile (536 m) in length. The total spring perch Thanks for posting this. < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. The rear weight percentage is found in a similar manner: Add the LR and the RR weight together and divide the sum by the total weight. shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). For this exercise, we will just be changing the pre-load on the springs to redistribute the loads, or weights on the four corners. To add weight to a given corner, raise the ride height at that corner or lower the ride height at an adjacent corner. Dirt or asphalt? Iretighten them after I've made all my adjustments. cars through the corners and thats where there eating me up. I lowered the right front spring perch 1 full turn (equates to If you want to lower the front of the car then retract only line above the scales and then stood on each scale and placed a ruler on the top How big is the track? Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I was amazed when I got my new scales, and let my car down on them for the first time. Thinking about this a little, the weight measured by the scales is the sum of the force of gravity acting on the car's mass, and the force of the springs pressing downward. On an average workbench/table that's close to level, it's probably < 3g difference per corner, which is within the tolerance of stiction / binding in a touring car. corner weight calculations: Corner_Balance.zip Moving weight to the front of the kart will provide more front-end grip. balance is complete put someone in the driver seat and reconnect the W. William18 New member. Prepare the car. Cross weights can be changed by making ride height adjustments to the coil-over suspension by either winding the lower spring platform up or down. Do not adjust any other wheel's spacing. on my garage floor for future reference. Corner_Balance.zip, Excel Corner Balance Spreadsheet Screen Capture. spring perch so I left my jacks in place between lifts and only put two lug nuts hard work but it makes all that high dollar suspension work together the way its Or it could also be possible that the signal is smoothed in the programming. Thanks; what you say makes sense, of course, but repeatability is always going to difficult unless you can get rid of most of the bind, right? Since this article still gets a bunch of traffic, just bumping it up. There is a reason for this order. When you adjust your coil overs The last event in the rain i actually had the rears up to around 38. Speaking of springs, it's a good idea Once you have installed your coil-over suspension, mount the rims with the tires you will be racing with, and complete all other items that could impact the vehicles weight and placement of that weight. Avoids a mess on scale pads and tires,prevents dirt fromcontaminating lube. want balanced turning in both directions. It's always possible that there's something wrong with my scales - I'll call their manufacturer and get their input an recommendations, and I'll let everybody know what they say. Right Rear = Upgrade fluid and/or cool. tiles) on the left front and 1 on the left rear to level the scales. Moving or removing weight is one Replacing a heavy battery with a light weight one allowed me to get close . as Left Rear Bite + Right Front Bite. (TVW LSP) - LF = 769D. 13. Your results might be different from mine. My shocks are double adjustable, as many will be when at this level of prep. Keeping track of Bite and Rear weight percentage for road racing and autocrossing is less definite. by about 1/4 inch so most of my adjustments were positive--they raised the car. If the car understeers or oversteers in only one direction, check the cross-weight percentage. As with the table, the corresponding diagonal corner of the vehicle gets more of the car's weight. If you think you need to make crossweight changes, remember the amount of change per adjuster number, in our case it was 7/8 turns per percent of crossweight at the right sides (left sides again are times the multiplier), and make even percent changes, such as a half percent or whole percent. McMaster-Carr adjustable end links measure (literally). You cannot change the left or rear percentages by jacking weight around in the car, although this will change cross-weight.

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