OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. The new Kirk does suck. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. They function as commanded every time. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. Really? Excellent work. Ron, The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. It was expensive. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Anyway around here they do. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Good job! brakes, remember? Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Is it? 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Liberal, Conservative. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. The Glock fails on both counts. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Sig can burn for all I care. 2. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. No autographs, No self taken pictures. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. there is no better. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. I have no idea. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. I continue to bet my life on them. Legal Penalties. Look a fanboy. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, It has been flawless so far. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. L. LRRifleman . Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Thats deflecting from the real issue. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. in Capitalvania. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Either the gun is defective or its not. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Canadian soldier. 2. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Sound familiar? I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. 3. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Funny how that works. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Mine is very accurate. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. But Shatner? Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. These officers are not gunfighters. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. . I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Theyre the only product that is not. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. . You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG.

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